Fannie M. MUNLIN, management consultant and the main UN representative for an NGO, the National Council of Negro Women, and also the former chair of the UN DPI/NGO Conference (2003).

Interviewed by:
Dr. Judy KURIANSKY

Fanie M.: Thank you, Judy, it's a pleasure to be here.

Dr. Judy: You represent the National Council of Negro Women, for the United Nations--and you're very passionate about this organization.  What do you actually do, and what gets you passionate about it?

Fannie M.:  I am the main representative for the National Council of Negro Women.  The National Council of Negro Women is a 70-year-old organization that was founded by Mary McLeod Bethune, whose parents were slaves, she also founded the Bethune-Cookman College, in Daytona Beach, Florida.  I'm very passionate about the National Council of Negro Women in that the organization fostered the development of African-American women. I got my start at the National Council of Negro Women, and we call it NCNW.

Dr. Judy: What do you do in general, and for young African-American women in particular? Girls?

Fannie M.: For young African-American women, we are a mentoring and advocacy organization, we're a human rights, civil rights organization.  We work to make sure that African American women have an opportunity within education and all of the professions.  Our headquarters are in Washington DC, where we've just purchased a building on 633 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Dr. Judy: How would an African-American woman take advantage of what you actually do?

Fannie M: There's several ways.  You can join the National Council of Negro Women and become a member.  We have 32 national affiliated organizations and more than 250 community-based sections throughout the United States.  We're also an international organization... we have programs in Africa working to help improve the lives of women in Africa.

Dr. Judy:  You call yourselves Negro women, but there might be some people who would say, "Why not Black women, why not African-American women..." Is that word okay now or not?

"There's a place for everyone within the NCNW, and we really think that what we do stands, speaks loudly, much louder than the word "negro".  And we are very proud to be called the National Council of Negro Women."

Fannie M.:  Well, that word is ok in that it tells the history of our organization, and we are very proud of what we've done, the accomplishments that the organization has made, and the improvement in the lives of women.  Mrs. Bethune had a very wonderful saying, and Dr. [Dorothy] Height has been the person who's carried the torch for the NCNW.  We work with women, the educated woman as well as the uneducated woman.  There's a place for everyone within the NCNW, and we really think that what we do stands, speaks loudly, much louder than the word "negro".  And we are very proud to be called the National Council of Negro Women.

Dr. Judy: What's your message to black women today?  Have they come far? Has there been progress?

Fannie M.:  There's been a great deal of progress made by African-American women, in the sciences, in the arts' For the very first time, the Secretary of State for the United States of America is an African-American woman.

Dr. Judy: Condoleezza Rice. You're proud of her.

Fannie M.: Very proud of Condoleezza Rice as an African American woman.  She is a member of, worked with our organization, she's a very good friend and a supporter of the NCNW.  We have had firsts in a great many fields, and we feel very strongly in terms of education, advocacy, human rights and civil rights to make sure that African-American women have those rights. Not only are we working towards the inclusion of African American women, we work with other women's organizations--the National Council of Jewish Women, the National Council of Latino women, Asian women.  We have a place for everyone because we feel the advancement of one woman is the advancement of all women.

Dr. Judy:  That's beautiful.  What has Condoleezza Rice done with you?

Fannie M:  She's been to our conventions, she's worked with us, and so she's really been a supporter of the council.

Dr Judy:  You feel she's an inspiration to the other young women?

Fannie M:  I think she is an inspiration to other African-American women... It's what we can do through education.  If you are not educated, we make sure that our women are educated, we make sure that our women have a place at the table, that we are there when policies are being made, that we are there to make sure that our voices are heard as women, and as the keeper of the family.  You know, we are a family-oriented organization. Dr. Height has always taught us that it's not what we do individually but what we do collectively.

Dr. Judy:  Besides Condoleeza Rice, your own family has been an inspiration for you, including sisters and your mom. 

"My mother insisted that we get ourselves educated."

Fannie M.:  I have two sisters and two brothers, and my mother has been a strong supporter of mine.  Whatever I have wanted to do, my mother has supported it.  My mother is here in New York, she doesn't live very far from me. She taught us to be independent, to make decisions for ourselves.  My mother insisted that we get ourselves educated.  I worked and put myself through university and my sisters have done the same thing.  We have had that support as women, that we were told that we could accomplish anything we'd like provided you get an education.

Dr. Judy: That's a wonderful message to have gotten from your mom.  In terms of role models for African American women, there's the Secretary of State, women like your mom, and you, too, are a role model.  Interestingly, you've not been married and you didn't have kids -- an important message for women in general and also African-American women -- that you can choose a non-traditional or alternative path.

Fannie M:  You can live an alternative kind of life.  I have not married, and don't have any children, but I have pursued a career that I thought was for me, and I don't say to all women that this is the route one should take.  It was the route that I took for myself, and I feel very comfortable with what I've done with my life--I do not regret what I have done.  I have traveled, I was the director for an international agency here in New York, I was the regional director for CARE for many years.  I have worked and traveled throughout the world, representing various organizations, working with various ethnic groups within New York and within the world, and I have enjoyed what I've done.  Besides my international work, I've worked very hard with the NCNW.  I've done entrepreneurial development for women who are in business, helping them to get contracts with the grantees of the Federal Transportation Administration.  I've worked with a number of agencies and traveled this country.  Truly, you know I'm from the East Coast, I'm from New York, but America is a huge country with a very different set of rules and values and people of great interest outside of New York.  I say if you are in America, travel the country.  Learn about America.  America is a wonderful place.

Dr. Judy: You're passionate about education for African American women, you're passionate about the rights to make your own decisions in one's life, and you're also, I hear, passionate about travel.  Besides travel in America, you've done a lot for Africa and been to Africa.

"I'd never been to Africa before, and there I was with people with people running things and making decisions who looked like me.  It gave me such a great feel of empowerment."

Fannie M.:  Yes, I have been to Africa, and I was very, very moved when I went there to see the projects that I had raised funds for.  I remember I was in Niger, and my office raised money for a reforestation program, and I went to see those trees that were being planted and I felt very good about that, and I met Africans who took me in.  And what I thought was just so wonderful, I was in Kenya, and I was told that we were going up country, and they told me to make sure I didn't get lost, and I said, "I will not get lost." And they said, "Well, you know, you blend in."  I felt so good.  Here I was, an African-American woman from America.  I'd never been to Africa before, and there I was with people with people running things and making decisions who looked like me.  It gave me such a great feel of empowerment.  When we talk about empowerment, that was an empowering moment for me. It was wonderful; I really enjoyed that.

Dr. Judy:  It's wonderful to see you so excited about doing something important. Related to that experience, you've worked for the American Field Service, and were asked to chaperone foreign students through Africa. That led to an unusual situation for you.

Fannie M.:  That led to an unusual situation for me... I was employed at the American Field Service; that was my first introduction, so to speak, to the international community.  I got an opportunity to chaperone some students from south Africa back to America.  I was asked to go, and they said, "Oh, you cannot get into South Africa." That was during the time of apartheid. I know that was some time ago, but it was very exciting... They offered to let me go into South Africa if I became an honorary white person. Everyone in the organization said, "Do not tell that to Fannie Munlin." And so I met [the students] in Frankfurt, Germany, and it was really interesting because the students who were from South Africa had not had that kind of close relationship with a black person.  And here I was, a black person, in charge of all 80 students, to make sure they arrived safely to New York.  I made some very good, lasting relationships with some of those students because I was in correspondence with several, and for years we kept in touch.  I've lost touch now with some of them, but for years we talked via letter.  So it was very interesting.

Dr. Judy:  You're a proud woman, and you deserve that because you have wise ideas about how to handle people and how to be a good manager, as you are the founder of your own management company.  What is your idea about management, how to encourage and motivate people?

Fannie M:  My ideas are very simple: If you select a person to do a job for you, you must have confidence in the ability of that person to do the job.  I always say to anyone who's working for me or working with me, I give you the authority to make decisions in whatever you are doing, but what I want the person to do is to be honest and open.  I don't second-guess; I let a person decide how he or she will do the job.  The one think I insist on is that it must be legal, and correct, and with the right results, and [the person must be] accountable to report back on what he or she is doing.  I try to be open and honest with everyone that I work with.  The one thing that I learned early in life from my family, particularly my mother and my father, is that I was encouraged to tell the truth.  No matter how good, no matter how bad, always tell the truth.  I live by that rule, I follow that rule, because I believe in that.

Dr. Judy:  Those are wonderful rules, from a management consultant.  Your leadership style has obviously worked well for you, which you also applied that at the UN when chair of the DPI/NGO conference a few years ago.  This conference is coming up in September again.  Explain how you were committed to that conference and what you did for it.

Dr. Judy Kuriansky (right) is with Fannie M. Munlin for LMTV/UN-NGO Profiles video-taping at Queens Public TV Studio, Flushing, on August 7, 2006.

"The history of that was very interesting in that Mary McLeod Bethune was at the San Francisco conference in 1945 which led to the founding of the United Nations.  Unfortunately, because of her color, she was not an official US representative."

Fannie M.:  The history of that was very interesting in that Mary McLeod Bethune was at the San Francisco conference in 1945 which led to the founding of the United Nations.  Unfortunately, because of her color, she was not an official US representative.  So in 2003, the 56^th annual DPI/NGO conference, I chaired that conference.  Which was a tremendous honor for me in that I was from the National Council of Negro Women, chairing the conference for the UN, knowing the history of Mary McLeod Bethune, I said "We have come full circle." I felt very good about it.  I had a committee; you know, today we have a much smaller committee, but then I had a committee of 70 members.  And every week, all 70 persons came to the meeting.  So it was a feat to manage 70 persons with all different ideas , but what I learned is this: Everyone can make a contribution, and you must be open and receptive to everyone's ideas.  Now, it does not mean that every idea is implemented, but you must give persons an opportunity to express their oppositions and their support. Once you give people a chance to say and do some things that are within boundaries, then you move on.  If you can't do that, you just say straightforwardly, "I thank you very much for your contribution.  Unfortunately we cannot do that this year, but we will take it under consideration for the future."  But everybody had a role to play, and once you give people their particular role, drawing on their talents, I think you can make it work.  And we did.

Dr Judy: That's beautiful.  Now, you're still very active, because you're on the planning committee, and you're head of the networking committee for the upcoming DPI/NGO conference.  What is your role in that?

Fannie M.:  I am the co-chair with a woman who is working with me, Lynn Karpo-Lantz who is from Hadassah.

Dr. Judy:  Which is an organization of Jewish women, as you mentioned earlier about working with women from all backgrounds.

Fannie M.:  We've had a relationship with our Jewish sisters for many years.  Yes, and this committee has been a challenge. One man who I shall not say his name, but has told me, "You know, you know nothing about networking," so... But I allowed him to say that. We are an organization that has built its reputation on networking.  In the National Council of Negro Women, we've had legislation passed, we've had laws passed, we've had doors opened for women that probably would not have been opened had it not been for the National Council of Negro Women.  So we know how to network with other women to get the job done.  For example, the National Council of Negro Women and the National Council of Jewish Women, the National Council of Women of the USA, we came together as a collaborative to get the WIC program--Women, Infant, and Children--that's a piece of legislation that's been passed by Congress and every year it's renewed and there's more money put in it, and it deals with all women of all ethnic backgrounds, all economic levels, to make sure that women have an opportunity to get food and nourishment for themselves and for their children.  So it's been a collaborative effort for the National Council [of Negro Women]. So I learned that very early.

Dr. Judy: That certainly sounds .like a perfect example of networking. Since you work with women of all races and ethnicities, how does one get over a prejudice that they might have?

"Truly, we're not all that different. We may do things a little differently in mannerism, in customs, in tradition, but basically we all want the same thing. "

Fannie M.:  You get to learn the other person.  You get to know the other person.  You really, truly cannot get over prejudices without learning about the people.  Working with them, meeting with them, talking with them.  Truly, we're not all that different. We may do things a little differently in mannerism, in customs, in tradition, but basically we all want the same thing.  We want security--for our children, for ourselves, we want a decent house, a home, food, an education, we want an opportunity to express ourselves.  Self-expression, self-fulfillment, those are the things that we all want, and I think the universe is such that it will allow us all to have that.  All we need to do is respect each other for the difference.  Now, just think of this universe--this great big place of all these colors, and all these sizes--I mean, what creative force did this?  I mean, you have to say it was universal, to make us all different--and yet we all have something to contribute.  And it's a beautiful garden, I would call it, of humanity.


"We want a quality of life, a good life.  We want basic security, we want human security."

Dr. Judy: You have a great enthusiasm, and a great joy, I can see, for the international community. 

Fannie M.:  I worked very closely with people from Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras, Panama, Afghanistan, everywhere.  When I was with CARE and there was a natural disaster, anywhere in the world, there are ethnic communities throughout New York State... Polish, Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski, I've worked with him, he taught at Columbia University.  I've worked with Indians from India, raising funds for India. I've worked with people from Bangladesh. I was able to work with these groups because we all want the same thing. We want a quality of life, a good life.  We want basic security, we want human security.  When I was chair of the [UN DPI/NGO] Conference, the title was "Human Security and Dignity: Fulfilling the Promise of the United Nations,' and I believe in We the Peoples.

Dr. Judy: We the Peoples, with an "s"!

Fannie M.:  Yes, right.

Dr. Judy: What do you feel is your goal for the upcoming UN conference in September?

Fannie M.:  We are looking at the Millennium Development Goals, and I think they can be achieved.  And I really, truly hope that NGOs and government officials come together, with the business community and academia. All various communities will come together and see to it that we make sure there's no one on this planet who's suffering.  We can do it! We have the technology, we have the resources, and we definitely have the manpower.  And I think it's an achievable goal by 2015. 

Dr. Judy: Relieving suffering is the essence of the Millenium Development Goals that the  Member States, the governments, agreed that they would accomplish.  These goals include reduction of poverty, equal education, and reduction of maternal deaths, child birth deaths and others.

Fannie M.:  Yes, right.

Dr. Judy: What is Fannie Munlin's dream?


"Fannie Munlin's dream is to see, to live, in a world where prejudice and racism cease to exist."

Fannie M.:  Fannie Munlin's dream is to see, to live, in a world where prejudice and racism cease to exist.  Now I know you say, "Can it be accomplished?"  I think it can.  I think it's up to us, the individual.  If I can love someone who doesn't look like me, the next person will be able to do the same thing.  I think we need to look beyond the exterior of individuals, or groups of people, and look for the goodness in people, because people by and large are really good!  I mean, we are.

Dr. Judy: That's a beautiful feeling.  What is it that you feel that every person can do to participate in this -- all the women, men and young people who are watching?  What can they do now to participate in the wonderful goals you've talked about?

Fannie M.:  I think everyone has a contribution to make, and I think that if you're not affiliated with an organization and you'd like to join the National Council of Negro Women, we have women who are not African-American who are members of the NCNW.  Join us!  If you don't want to do that, find a group that you can work with.  Or, work with the Millennium Campaign for the United Nations and help alleviate poverty.  It really doesn't mean that you need to be a Bill Gates -- and we thank Bill Gates for what he's going to do and what he is doing -- but if you have time and effort and a small amount... you know, one dollar a week or one dollar a month, if you put that aside and give it to a worthy cause, it will make a difference. 

Dr. Judy:  You have a beautiful philosophy about energy, and how we are all generating and exchanging energy.  How can everyone use that principle?

Fannie M:  I think what we have to do, as people, is to examine our own selves and look at what it is we'd like to have, for myself and for yourself.  And if you can... you cannot wish and want good for yourself and not wish it for somebody else and want that for others.  Because the good that you want for yourself, you must share that good, because you can never, never ever outgive the Universe.

Dr. Judy: That's quite beautiful, and absolutely motivating and charming.  Where does this come from within you?  Where did you get this idea from?

"Sharing doesn't mean that you've lost.  You know, you get back what you give out.  You give out good, you get back good.  You give out negative, you get back negative."

Fannie M.:  I grew up with a mother and a father who always taught me to share. I have two brothers, two sisters, and we were a sharing family.  We are still a sharing family. If I have something, I share.  And sharing doesn't mean that you've lost.  You know, you get back what you give out.  You give out good, you get back good.  You give out negative, you get back negative. 

Dr. Judy:  You've certainly shared a lot of good with us, in this time that you've spent with us.  Thank you so much, Fannie Munlin, it's absolutely beautiful.

Fannie M.:  Thank you.

Dr. Judy: Let's us remember Fannie Munlin's messages: send out  positive energy, support others, and be involved. Most of all, have the sense of "We the Peoples" With an "s."  Thank you, Fannie.

Above interview was conducted by Dr. Judy KURIANSKY for the Light Millennium-TV Series/Queens Public Television on August 7, 2006 in Flushing, New York.

-Special Thanks to:
Jeanene MITHCHELL, Youth Representative of the Light Millennium to the United Nations; for the transcription of the interview.

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