On-Line Discussion Continues - Latest as of April 18, 2011:
(For the initial comments of Sinan Rushtini, please see the earlier correspondences under neath of this section.)

[by MACREAU/Sinan RUSHTUNI]
Bircan Hanim,

I am not going to debate  the whole Armenian question with Mr. Aya. His views  are identical to the Turkish Governments view, thus it is redundant to go back and forth. He may try to contradict 146 Genocide scholars' views on a TV show and try to sway some uninitiated opinions to his side but what we have witnessed on the world wide academia of genocide studies makes it  "deveye kahve icirmek."

[By Sukru Server AYA]
Give my best regards to those "lazy-sloppy-biased academia" and invite them to refute the documents I show; they are all authentic documents! If they are the "three-monkey-type" scholars, too bad that there are so many of them defending genocide. 

We need no sloppy scholars to dupe us with their unfounded palavers. History is written by DOCUMMENTS, no palavers, no big mouth persons giving sermons a century later. Sorry, you have to swallow and digest these documents Mr. Rushtuni... If you do not have the guts to admit truth, why do you comment for the second time?  In 2008 you had written that I cannot even speak English?  Now you try to defy documents simply by "numbers of grand-ma-story-teller-schollars"! If that is enough for you, be happy!
 
Sinan RUSHTUNI: One last question which I asked but Mr.Aya  did not answer. It is a straight forward question. Why does the Berlin archives contain many documents and copies of telegrams sent by German officials  from Turkey , succinctly describing the genocide?  Was not Germany war time partner of Turkey? Why would your partner describe murders, massacres of Armenians  to their HQ in  Berlin?

Sukru Server AYA-Reply:  From text of "Treaty of Alliance" dated Aug.2,1914, signed by Ambassador von Wangenheim and Said Halim (Grand Vizier).
                              
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Sukru Server AYA-Reply Continues- Par.3: In case of war, Germany will leave her military mission at the disposal of Turkey. According to the previous agreements, which were effective immediately, between his Excellency the Turkish war minister and his Excellency, Chief of the German military mission, Turkey on her part assures said military mission of an effective influence on general command of (Turkish) army.

Par.4 : In event of a threat Germany pledges, in case of need to defend territory of Ottoman Empire with arms.
Note  to article 3: The Turks desired this wording in consideration of fact his Majesty the sultan is commender in chief of Turkish army.  General Liman, however, officially informed me beforehand he has effected a detailed agreement with War Minister Enver Pasha which guarantees actual command to military mission.> (above lines were underlined by S.S.AYA. L.M.)
                            
Last Word: Above excerpt prove that German General Liman von Sanders was in total command of the Ottomany Army and hence bears FIRST Responsibility. General Bronsart was deputy War Minister and he was signing directly on behalf of Enver Pasha! Your question should be directed to German authorities, to explain this paradox!

Question: ASK YOUR REFERRED 146 SCHOLARS WHY THEY DID NOT KNOW THAT GERMANS WERE IN COMMAND OF THE TURKISH ARMY AND TURKISH ARMY FOLLOWED THEIR ORDERS!   This is the DEAD END ANSWER TO LAZY SCHOLARS AND RESEARCHERS from an old man, who took the matter seriously!  I would not be surprised if they "cannot find even this document"! But they make declarations by hundreds!
 
Bye bye  Mr. Rushtuni...You are free to believe in what you want, which is not TRUE! Unless you or your 146 scholars cannot prove any of my given documents and excerpts to be wrong, please do not wrıte me ever agaın (unless you learn first)!

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On-Line Discussion Previous - From April 14-16, 2011:

1: From: MACREAU
Subject: About Mr. Aya
Date: April 13, 2011 12:11:41 PM EDT
To: contact@lightmillennium.org

"Dear Sir,
 
Without going into details of Mr.Aya's "Conversation " with you and analyzing it I would like  to make few comments.

He mentions a very obscure Fresno, USA. newspaper cautioning its readers about  believing the genocide of Armenians because it could not be true. Fine, that is the opinion of that particular newspaper's editor. How come he is not mentioning other USA newspapers of the time ?  Let's go briefly over them:
 
The New York Times:

January 11, 1915	Title	...Says Turks advise Christians to Flee
January 13, 1915	Title	Christians in Great Peril
March 20, 1915	Title	Whole Plain Strewn by Armenian Bodies
March 22, 1915	Title	Turks Renew Massacres
April 28,  1915	Title	Appeal to Turkey to Stop Massacres.
July 29,  1915	Title	Wholesale Massacres of Armenians by Turks
August 6, 1915	Title	Armenian Horrors Grow
August  18,   1915	Title	Armenians are sent to Perish in desert
September 17,  1915	Title	The death Of Armenia

Septepber  27, 1915	Title	Tales of Armenian Horrors Confirmed

Current History: October 1922 Issue     
Title Crimes of Turkish Misrule
There are many other publications to  mention but we have no room here to list them.
 
Here is the clincher that  Aya does not mention. Of course how could he, it would destroy his "truth" United States has the official records on the Armenian Genocide. Has Mr.Aya  ever read any of them? If he did, probably did, why does he not mention them?
Here is a partial list of documents that expose Turkish atrocities and genocide of Armenians:
FILE NUMBER
NA/RG 59/867.4016/350
NA/RG 59/867. 4016/386
NA /RG 59 /867.00/739
NA/RG 59/867.00/ 760
ETC..ETC..ETC..

There are too many enumerate here. It is quite obvious that Mr.Aya is very good in choosing and picking information to fit his agenda. Thus,  his key words " moral values", " Truthful" "decent"  are good only on paper and not in practice.

Oh...yes...he is very eloquent in his presentation of misrepresent facts, innuendos.
The most probably you will not post these lines as it does not fit to your agenda, nevertheless thank you for your time.
 
Sinan Rushtuni"

Sukru Server AYA: I am not clear if I am to respond to Macreau or Sinan Rushtuni; it is not so important for me, but I don't want to be part of any later mud slinging. The commentary is very politely worded  and I give my short time attention.

Sinan RUSHTUNI-2: There is no mud slinging Sukru Bey just disagreement on your analysis of events.

Sukru Server AYA: First of all, I think that I have mentioned that butcheries have been bilateral. I had to give some examples to contradict the claims of innocence and victimization!

Sukru Server AYA: 2: I am glad that there has been some positive change from time I received a Macreau comment about the presentation of my book in April 2008. (See posting)

Sinan RUSHTUNI-2: Every action and reaction has degrees of severity. I have not read your examples, I am sure they look quite convincing, that contradict victimization and innocence. It seems that you have not gone to the core problem of Turco-Armenian relastionship.

Sukru Server AYA: I did not “write” books, I just “compiled excerpts from neutral or anti-Turkish sources” and shared with readers, leaving the conclusions to each one. It is not within my authority to make psychological analysis. I am objective and only laid “plain documented facts”!

Why should people of the same region, (may be same DNA), totally interlinked in their life principles, be affection or brutality differ when it colmes to "race, nationality or faith"?

Sinan RUSHTUNI -2: Good question..It is a known fact that the Sublime Port has left the Eastern provinces to their own device. It is also known fact that Armenians were  the pions of Kurdish tribes. In 1860's a delegation of Armenians from the region of BULANIK (in those times if was a region not the city like today) go to Sublime port to complain their mistreatment in the hands of Kurds.The "Vezir" of that time threatens to put them in jail and tells them if they are not happy where they are , they could be replaced by Cherkez tribes. This was the culmination of mistreatments that spark the revolutionary fervor. After this date self defense forces started to form to protect their lives, belongings etc.etc. which was the start of the Armenian political parties.

Sukru Server AYA-2: I did not elaborate about the Ottoman rule, (the sick man of Europe, pray of imperial powers to be partitioned) and of course with administrative corruptions, which prevail even today in many “very familiar countries”! The “self-defense forces” (?) was a natural continuation of the national inspirations which had started in Greece and expanded in the Balkans and were supported by Christian Super Powers, plus teachings of the Missionaries!

Sinan RUSHTUNI-2: You mentioned mutual atrocities. I am not denying that. BUT....yes there is a BIG BUT....You fail to mention ( conveniently) the time line.. The  genocide started in 1915 , however the Armenian atrocities  started much later in 1917. The feelings of revenge by Russian Armenians to avenge the massacre of their brethren was quite understandable, considering that according Herbert Lock " homo homini Lupus". Man are like wolves, they eat each other (wolves are not cannibals, just his misconception")

Sukru Server AYA-2:
a- Refer to “Armenians-1915.blogspot.com” enter # 1449, read Dashnaks Manifest given to 1910 Copenhagen Socialist Congress, detailing revolution readiness!

b- What started in 1915 end of May, was TEMPORARY RELOCATION (after the City of Van was conquered by Armenians in mid April) and not GENOCIDE!

c- Refer to (above blog) #2187 for excerpts from Pastermadjian’s Book “Why Armenia Should be Free” or view the whole book at the end of posting #2429, my book presentation, see that Armenian Volunteers had taken oath and action in October 1914 (War started on Nov.2nd). Read details about the service of Armenians to Russians in Nov.1914 when entering East Anatolia, and also their great assistance in reversing the Turkish Sarikamish attack, which ended in disaster in late Dec. 1914 – early 1915, whereby some 80.000 Turkish soldiers perished.

d- What started in late 1917 was the Armenian mass killings in Erzurum-Erzincan when Russians had quitted the front and Armenian forces were retracting towards Erivan destroying all villages en route!

Sukru Server AYA-1: suspect that "my words may not be enough and they will have to be supported by strong references".  Given the amount of "hair and reference counting" I am afraid that my "word to word" response and references may end up in not less than 6-10 pages. Such a long lace-work reply can only be done over the weekend and if you can wait until Monday... you have to tell me now, so I reserve my weekend for this!  Otherwise, I give the following "condensed  answers" within my general knowledge by heart, and not sending time on evidencing sources.
 
A.  N.Y. Times: Without exception, all Christian newspapers, needed news against Muslims to meet the expectations of the readers.  Propaganda-Information was one of the top war weapons, conducted from the Wellington House, by Lord Bryce and Arnold Toynbee. "Reuters" was the ONLY NEWS agency distributing news from London by cable all over the world.  Why should the British distribute any news favoring their enemy, the Turks and Germans?  The first rule of journalism is: "If a dog bites a man, that's no news,  but if a man bites a dog, that is the news".  My examples were the exceptions which escaped the world censorship by chance or mistake. Yet in the early and middle parts of 1915, there was two American Journalists right on the Dardanelles front, one was the Associated Press Representative and the other the Chicago Tribune correspondent;  both had come from Germany and evidenced the Dardanelles war. We find several other references in Morgenthau's diary regarding his conversations with the  A.P: representative who later wrote an excellent book, with dependable neutral (?) observations.

The "appeals to stop massacres" (even before landing and relocations) was a simple propaganda tactic to threaten Turks and cause disagreement within their government. The A.P. correspondent wrote that "massacres was only a joke or simple world brain washing"! Which one of these British-American sources  should we credit ? I would go for the Asoc.Press man. The news Reuters got was from Sofia, cables sent by Armenian "translators-dragomans" to Sofia, with exaggeration or distortions were transferred to London, where they were re-fitted for world distribution. If you need verbatim references that may take a few pages, you have to wait until Monday.

Sinan RUSHTUNI -2: I am sure these correspondents  wrote what you say they wrote..but isn't it convenient for your purpose? Among many , many reports of massacres you cherry pick the one you see fit and  disregard the others as "propaganda". Let's  say for the sake of argument that they were "propaganda" by the enemies of Turkey. How about German archives? Your ally during the war. Is there any reason why you patron and ally should disclose those massacres to their HQ in Berlin?
 
Sukru Server AYA 1: B.  CURRENT  HISTORY:  I have not used books, other than those of Armenian leaders and historians.  I am basing myself on the reports of  American eye witnesses (General Harbord 1919 Report) and Captain Emory Niles & Sutherland detailed expedition reports. For additional support I have Russian generals' reports, Armenian Memo to Paris Peace Conference, Armenia and Settlement booklet of British and Antranik's speeches in London...  Why should "Christians" write anything pro-Muslim, when they were there to convert Muslims into Christianity? There are almost ONE million documents in the open - classified Ottoman archives and I have not used one. Since the Dashnak archives are closed and will remain closed not to show the blood soaked pages or braveries, I have used some Armenian historians who gave some hints about the Armenian archives they used partially.  Again, if I start counting it will take pages...But all these have been on the internet in my first book and so far no one could refute a single reference. Why not read my book and over 2000 verbatim excerpts, and write to the blog your objections or errors you discover? Let us be punctual, precise. They are all in the "armenians-1915.blogspot.com" E-library.  My findings has been on the open buffet for years; just tell "which one is not true"; please don't expect extra room service!
 
C. MORAL VALUES: For better coverage, I would suggest that the parties read my London Conference on Jan.30,2009, posted since then  on the "armenians-1915.blogspot.com"  under Number 2730 and again under number 2733.  Parties who disagree with what I shared with my audience in London, can send their comments for posting as counter comments.
 
Last Word:  Very few of us got in this "fanfare of grudge and hatred, because we want to defend truth, whatever it is, and settle for reason and compassion".  Those who want to drag us into a mud slinging or hate war will not be able to see us in that arena. But we can  donate some photos showing elementary school children being taught how to use arms and kill Turks and become staunch enemies of the humankind!

Sinan RUSHTUNI-2: I agree with you, by the same token how about Turkish  history books where Armenians are the "enemy" and from the first grade to high school the enemy is either Greek or Armenian... I remember from my school days when the history teacher would talk about the Eastern  front and talk about treacherous Armenians " yok..ama siz onlardan degilsiniz" what kind of statement is that? If this is not mud slinging, what is it??

Sukru Server AYA: I would not enjoy "hating anyone" especially Armenians with whom I always got extremely friendly! Did I make myself clear? How many of the E-books or documents have you studied Sirs? Why you insist in looking at only one face of the muddy or bloody coin?

How can any one jump into so many conclusions without reading anything other than a friendly one hour interview? 

Sinan RUSHTUNI-2: You are wrong. Nobody is jumping into any conclusions just rising questions to your analysis of past events. One last question : Do you think that USA  Official Archives have fake documents???   
 -Sinan Rushtuni

Sukru Server AYA 2: a) To the best of my knowledge the British could not find any “valid document” in the US Archives so that they could indict some 144 Ottoman dignitaries held in Malta for trial for over 2 years. If you had read my analysis about the “distortions and some lies” of Ambassador Morgenthau, you could have seen that the Missionary Reports were biased, pro-Christianity/Armenianism. The answer is that “they were not fake documents, but they were grossly exaggerated and distorted." For example, the Relief Report speaks of 1.414.000 Armenians alive at the end of 1921! According to your evaluation “this must be true because it is official”! If I was asked privately I would have said that the figure was inflated so that more financial aid could be secured. We learn from Katchaznuni and Lalaian’s books that the population of Armenia in early 1918 was One Million, but during the two year Dashnak rule 195.000 died of starvation and epidemics in Armenia. Hence the population should have been 800.000 + about 120.000 in Western Anatolia or a total of about 950.00 at most.

Of course there are a lot of "massacre talks"nin the US Congress and Senate minutes, but what counts is the General Harbord and Captain Emory Niles reports, plus the statement of League of Nations Secrertary Dr. F. Jensen in the official gazette in 1928. These are all shown in my last book. Most paragraphs were posted by armenians-blogspot.

b- Apparently, Rushtuni is not even aware that the overall command of the Ottoman Army was entrusted to Germany or General Liman von Sanders; and this was one of the conditions for the 5 million Ottoman Gold coins they gave as credit with 6% interest to Turks to enter war. General Bronsart von Schellendorf was the general staff and deputy acting on behalf of the Turkish War Ministry. The orders were given by Germans, carried on by Turks as per agreement. Germans did not even accept the "Sultan to be shown as Commander of All Forces"! These are all shown in books and some in PPS presentation. Sorry, no special personal service for those who do not learn first!
- Sukru S. Aya

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For Posting:
From: ssaya@superonline.com
Subject: RE: About Mr. Aya - Comments on the interview - Apri. 14
Date: April 14, 2011 5:51:37 PM EDT
To: contact@lightmillennium.org

"Dear Bircan Hanim,

a- As you know, we have to go through other blogs in Turkey to access "armenians-1915.blogspot.com", while you can just click!
b- Macreau is a well known reactioner. Going back to some old postings I found the followings, and you are welcome to know my past efforts, better!
* My book "The Genocide of Truth" presentation was posted under No. 2429, and can be still unloaded from there, plus five later attachments of documents.
If Macreau or alike had done their home work, they should have been careful in critizing my interview. Read and learn for yourself.
* A few weeks later Ara Baliozian had sent a Book Review under No. 2444 which I had replied. At that time Macreau had added the following comment

< THE GENOCIDE OF TRUTH. By Sukru Server Aya. 702 pages. Illustrated.
Index. Bibliography. Istanbul: Commerce University Publications. 2008.
----------------------------------------------------------

This book's contents are not surprising at all. Just consider the following : The author is born in 1930 and is the product of Turkish educational system (read as glorified Turkish history). I even bet that he does not read or write any foreign languages so that he could consult foreign sources dealing with the events of 1915.

As a matter of fact another nail was nailed to the coffin of Turkish spinmeisters. Until today we all talked about Austrian, German sources, and NOW we have found Swedish sources in Swedish archives dealing with what we all
know.....the Armenian genocide perpetrated by Ottomans.

Let Mr. Aya bask under the sun of is Turkish masters..."