Comments by Sinan Rushtuni and On-Line Discussion with Sukru Server AYA (2)
For Comments by Sinan Rushtuni and On-Line Discussion with Sukru Server AYA (1)

From: MACREAU
Subject: Re: On-line discussion page is updated - RE-4: About Mr. Aya - Comments on t...
Date: April 18, 2011 6:40:10 PM EDT
To: contact@lightmillennium.org

Hello again,

Mr.Aya's still does not give an answer to my last question.

Nobody talked about who was running the war machine. I certainly did not raised the question. Mr.Aya is coming out from nowhere and talking about the lack of knowledge of historians' ( lazy according to him ) as who was in command.

Every child from the fifth grade ( at least in Turkey ) knows that Germans were the big boss'. This is was not the question.

If no massacres ( I am not using the word genocide, because you will probably claim that word was not invented in 1915) took place WHY Germans were sending telegrams to their Head Quarters in Berlin exposing these massacres?. These documents are available in Germany.

Why should your wartime boss lie about it if it is not true?

Here is one sample from Count Wolff-Metternich

German Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire July 10, 1916, cable to the German Chancellor

In its attempt to carry out its purpose to resolve the Armenian question by the destruction of the Armenian race, the Turkish government has refused to be deterred neither by our representations, nor by those of the American Embassy, nor by the delegate of the Pope, nor by the threats of the Allied Powers, nor in deference to the public opinion of the West representing one-half of the world.

Here are some Turkish views :
Turkish Quotes - Beginning with multiple quotes from the 3 rulers of wartime Turkey, Cemal Pasha, Enver Pasha and Talat Pasha:

Enver Pasha: "One of the triumvirate rulers publicly declared on 19 May 1916..."

The Ottoman Empire should be cleaned up of the Armenians and the Lebanese. We have destroyed the former by the sword, we shall destroy the latter through starvation.

In reply onto our underlings and I am entirely willing to accept the responsibility myself for everything that has tato US Ambassador Morgenthau who was deploring the massacres against Armenians and attributing them to irresponsible subalterns and underlings in the distant provinces, Enver's reply was...

You are greatly mistaken. We have this country absolutely under our control. I have no desire to shift the blame

Talat Pasha: "In a conversation with Dr. Mordtmann of the German Embassy in June 1915..."

Turkey is taking advantage of the war in order to thoroughly liquidate (grundlich aufzaumen) its internal foes, i.e., the indigenous Christians, without being thereby disturbed by foreign intervention.

After the German Ambassador persistently brought up the Armenian question in 1918, Talat said "with a smile"...

What on earth do you want? The question is settled. There are no more Armenians.

Cemal Pasha To a German officer upon seeing the deportations in Mamure said..."I am ashamed of my nation (Ich schame mich fur meine Nation)"

Minister of the Interior of Turkey publicly declared on March 15 that on the basis of computations undertaken by Ministry Experts...

800,000 Armenian deportees were actually killed...by holding the guilty accountable the government is intent on cleansing the bloody past.

Prince Abdul Mecid: "Heir-Apparent to the Ottoman Throne, during an interview..."

I refer to those awful massacres. They are the greatest stain that has ever disgraced our nation and race. They were entirely the work of Talat and Enver. I heard some days before they began that they were intended. I went to Istanbul and insisted on seeing Enver. I asked him if it was true that they intended to recommence the massacres which had been our shame and disgrace under Abdul Hamid. The only reply I could get from him was: 'It is decided. It is the program.'

Grand Vezir Damad Ferid Pasha: "Equivalent rank in the US would be head of the cabinet I think. He described the treatment of the Armenians as...

A crime that drew the revulsion of the entire humankind."

Mustafa Arif - Minister of Interior stated on 13 December 1918: "Surely a few Armenians aided and abetted our enemy, and a few Armenian Deputies committed crimes against the Turkish nation... it is incumbent upon a government to pursue the guilty ones. Unfortunately, our wartime leaders, imbued with a spirit of brigandage, carried out the law of deportation in a manner that could surpass the proclivities of the most bloodthirsty bandits. They decided to exterminate the Armenians, and they did exterminate them.

Of course those Turkish quotes are all lies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing but mud slinging..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What did Mustafa Kemal say about these massacres that did not happen (!!!)

Founder of the modern Turkish Republic in 1923 and revered throughout Turkey, in an interview published on August 1, 1926 in The Los Angeles Examiner, talking about former Young Turks in his country...

These left-overs from the former Young Turk Party, who should have been made to account for the millions of our Christian subjects who were ruthlessly driven en masse, from their homes and massacred, have been restive under the Republican rule.

Sincerely
Sinan Rushtuni

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Sukru Server AYA's REPLY to the above comments and questions as of April 18, 2011:

From: ssaya01@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Sukru Bey - Another one from Rushtuni!!! Fwd: On-line discussion page is updated - RE-4: About Mr. Aya - Comments on t...
Date: April 19, 2011 6:32:04 AM EDT
To: contact@lightmillennium.org

Dear Bircan Hanim,

This is the very last message on Mr. Rushtuni because he is an incurable fanatic, unwilling to reconcile or look to both sides of the "bloody and muddy" coin! I had indicated at the very start that "butcheries were bilateral" but he insists to portray a totally innocent - victimized Armenian, and place the blame for everything (even when fighting against revolutionary rebels -traitors) on Turks, and now says that he knew that the boss were Germans! So, why you do not accuse Germans but show me some correspondence of the German ambassador who came after Wangenheim died, and did not know even what his predeccessor had signed?

In my essay posted by "armenians-1915.blogspot.com" under no. 2610, (you can refer to), I had given verbatim quotes not only from Pastermadjian's book (which apparently he still did not read to accept the words of this great Armenian patriot), but more important I gave quotes from the official memorandum of the Armenian Delegation to
Paris Conference, in which their treason is confessed in detail. They had asked a huge land "free of no Christians" and claimed that they are over a million to fill up that huge area... and this was only 5 months after they had expressed their thanks to Sultan Vahdettin in Istanbul on Sept.6, 1918!.

There are HUNDREDS of pages describing Armenian atrocities, the most remarkable being that of Captain Emory Niles. I am attaching a few other excerpts I started to pick but quitted since it will take tens of pages.

CONCLUSION: Armenians in the Western Anatolia (also Protestant and Catholics or families of those in official jobs) where they were no threat, were not touched. Those in strategic areas were relocated (including the innocent ones who forcefully had to feed-support the revolutionists), rarely some attacks by brigands did happen, 48
gendarmes were killed in fights, but some groups have been robbed, some nice girls kidnapped by some Kurdish tribesmen, some Armenian children took refuge in Moslem houses and shown as Moslems while some converted willingly to escape relocation. Death toll was heavy and equal on both Armenian and Moslem population, owing to epidemics and starvation. There were no young Turkish men in the villages, all were
in the army.

Turks did not give flowers to Armenians, when they found all their houses burned, families killed! I have nothing further to argue with Mr. Rushtuni who is saturated with hatred and grudge, which may be he needs to satisfy his ego. I will appreciate if you do not forward anything more by this stubborn person which inssists in "not reading
anything that may distract his prejudice"!

(P.S. about Pope Bendict's efforts to stop the war refer to my new book. In early Feb.1916, Morgenthau had gone back to USA and the new ambassador Elkus was still in USA; despite diplomatic status, USA was
not neutral during 1914 - 1927! Re Mustafa Arif on Dec.18, 1918: The Ottomans had surrendered on Oct.30,1918 and a puppet Ottoman Government was in charge! )
B. rgds
Aya

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For RUSHTUNİ - additional selection, annex to posting TA 2610
(From A. Nassibian – Britain & the Armenian Question” )

P.76: The German ambassador had once stated that they ‘appear to be pure invention.’ He was also said, however, to have defended the Turks, action as a necessary wartime measure… However, it was generally believed in Washington that no official action would be taken unless American missionaries or American property suffered wrong.

P.90: Djemal Pasha, as commander of the Fourth Army, was himself ‘furious’ that the deportees were sent to far-away Mesopotamia, thus hindering the movement of the Ottoman troops, instead of being resettled in central Anatolia.

P.97: During the war, the Caucasian armies, including Armenian volunteers, had crossed the Turkish frontier and had occupied three of the six Armenian vilayets. Now with the disintegration of the Caucasian front, not only these provinces but also that of Erevan in the Russian Caucasus were in danger. Who would defend them against the Turks? Moreover, Armenians did not know what objectives they were being asked to fight for. They were uncertain and worried about their future. About 150.000 Caucassian Armenians had loyally fought in the Tsarist armies.... But in the re-conquered portions of Armenia, Armenian landowners had been evicted and Tatar and Cossack settlers put in their place... Thus, it was mainly in order to stimulate further the war efforts of the Armenians on the fast-disintegrating Caucassian front that the British leaders found themselves necessarily having to make generously sympathetic statements about the liberation of Armenia.

Antranik:
P.106: Furthermore, various Armenian groups outside the republic’s frontiers, went on fighting the Turks even after the Treaty of Batum. Thus General Andranik (Ozanian) the ‘quiet, dignified and soldierly’ hero of the Turkish-Armenians, the officer for whom the British War Office had ‘a good deal’ of respect, had been fighting of the Turks the whole way back to Erzerum to Karabagh. He ‘absolutely refused’ to make peace with the Turks, minuted a member of the Foreign Office staff. Denouncing both signatories and the Treaty of Batum for handing over the Armenian Plateau to Turkey, Andranik continued his fight in Zangezur.. Likewise, in Baku, it was the nationalist Armenians, in an unholy alliance with the local Soviet, which to a large extent kept the Turks out of the oil center until 16 Sept.1918, that is only about a month before the Armistice of Mudros was signed. For Caucasian Armenia, there was first of all immense human burdens of the thousands of refugees, the remnant of the decimated population of Turkish Armenia. There was also, initially, the necessity

P.115: … the gallant resistance of the Armenians in defense of their liberties and honour… He also referred to the Armenian soldiers ‘still fighting’ in the ranks of the British, French and American armies, and to the part they had borne in General Allenby’s great victory in Palestine.

P.156: The Turkish Armenian leader General Andranik and his partisans entered Zangezur in July, destroyed a number of Moslem settlements, and brought the central region of the country under Armenian control. On 2 December 1918 Andranik and his volunteers crossed the Karabagh border. Within a few days the Karabagh Armenians might have come under the jurisdiction of the Republic of Armenia. General Thomson, however, commanding at Baku, sent instructions to Andranik to stop all military operations and return to Zangezur. Thomson approved Azerbaijani government's choice of Dr. Khosrov Bek Sultanov, a notorious Armenophobe, as the Governor General of the two regions. At the end of 1918 the Armenian government had expelled a number of Moslems from Daralagiaz and repopulated the villages with Armenian refugees

P.209: Kemal ‘gladly’ accepted the offer of mediation. He added that the Turkish government had postponed military operations in the provinces of Kars, Ardahan and Batum on receipt of Chicherin’s note. In 1920 Armenian troops moved into Olti, a district rich in coal, on the Russian side of the pre-war Russo-Turkish frontier, as a preliminary step towards the Treaty of Sèvres. Bekir Sami claimed that Olti formed part of the Ottoman Empire under the Treaties of Brest-Litvosk and Batum. He therefore requested the withdrawal of the Armenian troops ‘without any delay’. The Armenian government however, rejected both treaties as bases for the relations between the two countries. The district was an incontestable part of the Armenian republic. Having signed the Peace Treaty with Turkey, Armenia would await the decision of the President of the United States and was not crossing the former Russo-Turkish frontier. Thus, in the summer of 1920, Armenia based her claims on the Treaty of Sèvres; Kemalist Turkey on the Treaties of Brest-Litvosk and Batum although Brest-Litvosk had been renounced by Soviet Russia in the autumn of 1918

P.219: The crushing Treaty of Alexandropol left Armenia with a territory of 27.000 square kilometers: Kars and Surmalu, including Mount Ararat would go to Turkey; Nakhichevan and Zangezur would become Azerbaijani protectorates; Armenia would be permitted to have a detachment of only 1.500 soldiers equipped with 20 machine-guns and 8 cannons; compulsory military service forbidden. Turkey would have the right to supervise goods entering Armenia. Finally, Armenia would declare the Treaty of Sèvres null and void; the representatives of the Allies should leave. The only Armenian state permitted by Karabekir was a tiny protectorate wholly dependent on Turkish goodwill. The renunciation of the Treaty of Sèvres by Armenia had been the pre-condition for Turkish negotiations. But it had also been the only major condition asked by Soviet Russia in return for her mediation in securing the pre-war Russian frontier. She had in addition agreed to recognize her independence. The offer was rejected. Had it been accepted, Kars and Surmalu might have been within Armenian territory, the war might have ended earlier and Karabekir’s troops would not have wrought death and destruction as thoroughly as if they were committed to annihilation.

From James Grabill, “Protestant Diplomacy & the Near East:”

P.59: “ When Enver’s forces moved across the Russian-Turkish border through the Bardiz pass, Russian-Armenian volunteers held them up at Sarikamish. This Armenian effort gave a Russian military unit to group and defeat the Turks. After this failure, The Committee became convinced that Turkish Armenians were traitors, that not only should the police imprison and execute them but the Army should shoot them.

P.60: The Turks fled. Next, Armenians burned and murdered: the spirit of loot took possession of them. Soon Turkish civilians found shelter and medical treatment in the American Board compound. By August 1915 the Russians had retreated toward Tiflis, with Americans and Armenians joining the exodus. Amid epidemics in this awful withdrawal, Mrs. Ussher and another missionary wife died. Ussher himself barely survived successive cases of typhus, pneumonia, and dysentery; Yarrow nearly succumbed also.

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