UN NGO Profiles -3: J. A. LEVY

Joan A. LEVY: "Any life is better than this. But of course, it isn't.
...At 11, their lives are over." 

Joan A. LEVY, the former chair of the DPI/NGO Executive Committee (2000-2005), and is the representative to the United Nations of the non-governmental organization, End Child Prostitution and Sexual Trafficking of Children

Interviewed by:
Dr. Judy KURIANSKY

Most of the time, unfortunately, the children in this country who are attacked and abused are children who are abused at home, who come from no family or bad families, or abusive families, and they run away.  They just run away, thinking, "Any life is better than this." But of course, it isn't. ...A big percentage of them develop HIV/AIDS, and at 11, their lives are over.  To me, that is a horrible tragedy.
-- Joan A. LEVY, August 7, 2006

Dr. Judy: Welcome Joan, it's a pleasure to have you.

Joan L.:  Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here.

Dr. Judy:  There's increasing awareness about the need to protect children these days, and you work so hard against prostitution, pornography, and trafficking -- three major problems nationally and internationally.  What is it that you do?

Joan L.:  I work on a two-prong approach.  First of all, I'm a very political person, and we work through trying to get legislation passed that will enable children to have some kind of protection.  We also work on the educational value of this, because if a child is picked up on the street, in this country, in this city, the police can hold that child in protective custody overnight. But there are no long-term facilities for children who have been sexually abused, the way there have been for many years for drug abuse and things like that.  So we're working very hard, number one to get legislation passed, and number two to give these children some kind of safe harbor.

Dr. Judy: There have been some major cases where young girls and boys have been abducted and abused.  Some have been found alive, and some have tragically ended up being dead.  How widespread is the problem in our country?


"Do you know that you could talk to anybody on the streets of New York, or Chicago, or Cleveland, or any of the big cities that we have in this country, and people would say, "No, not here. Not here... "

Joan L.:  Okay, in our country, in the last three years, people are beginning to recognize that there is a problem.  Do you know that you could talk to anybody on the streets of New York, or Chicago, or Cleveland, or any of the big cities that we have in this country, and people would say, "No, not here. Not here... This is something from Asia, from South America, from Thailand, but not in this country." And little by little, people are beginning to see that there is a tremendous amount of children here to whom that has happened. Number one, there are children that come from abused homes, and they are either abducted or they leave their homes and go to the big cities and are promised a better life, as a mother's helper or a beautician.  They're enticed, by being told, we'll teach you a trade, we'll send you to school.  And once they disappear into the community of abusers, they're never seen again.  Also, children are abducted or sometimes sold by their parents.  In Asia for instance, some parents who don't have enough money to feed their other children sell their children to the people who go to these places to pick up children who are to be trafficked.  These children disappear into the ethnic neighborhoods of some of the big cities.  And they are also never seen again, and it's a tragedy.

Dr. Judy:  Yes indeed.  We hear about those children from Asian countries, where young girls are snatched and taken across borders.  Or their parents sell them for a few cows for financial gain.  Here in this country we hear in the media about cases like that of Elizabeth Smart.  But how often do these things happen in America, that girls are sold or snatched, and taken to other states or countries?


"Having come from a healthcare background, that is so horrible is that they are sold or they are used, 10,11,12,13,14 times a day..."

Joan L.:  They're snatched if they get themselves into a situation where they are alone and friendless, and they are picked up by men who prey on them, or women who sell them.  And they are sold into slavery.  It's a simple as that--they are sold into slavery, and it's very, very prevalent. I'm sorry to say it happens thousands of times, thousands of times each year, that children disappear, that unless there is something prominent about their cases or they catch the interest of a legislature, they disappear and they're gone. And one thing that, to me, having come from a healthcare background, that is so horrible is that they are sold or they are used, 10,11,12,13,14 times a day, and...

Dr. Judy: Used sexually, you mean?

Joan L.:  Used sexually, and a big percentage of them develop HIV/AIDS, and at 11, their lives are over.  To me, that is a horrible tragedy.

Dr. Judy:  Very devastating.  What is it, then, that parents can do to prevent this happening?

Joan L.:  First of all, education is very important.  I will say that in the last couple of years, the federal government has passed legislation that is deemed to protect the child in this country.  Most of the time, unfortunately, the children in this country who are attacked and abused are children who are abused at home, who come from no family or bad families, or abusive families, and they run away.  They just run away, thinking, "Any life is better than this." But of course, it isn't.  It's a tragedy that has no bounds.

Dr. Judy: What can neighbors or communities do?

Joan L.:  I would say, be alert.  Be alert.  Mind somebody else's business if you feel that somebody next door to you, or that you've heard of, is being abused or beaten, or suddenly doesn't show his or her face.  And by the way, boys are also subjected.  We hear about the girls, we talk about the girls, but boys too are sold and boys are kidnapped.  And it's just a horrible problem.  So I would say that if you are suspicious of anything, take the chance of being wrong.  What can happen?  You can apologize.  But so many times, you could be the first person, the key person, who can identify a child who is going into a dangerous situation.

Dr. Judy: What should parents say to their children to prevent this from happening?

Joan L.:  They ought to talk to them about strangers, and about things that could happen. There are a number of films now being made about children who have been trafficked from one country to another, or even in this country.  Some people say, "Oh no, don't show it to them, they're too young."  You're never too young to be educated, and I am a strong believer in early education, in listening to your children and talking to your children.  I know I sound like a television commercial right now, but I mean that.

Joan L:  Well, I would say that they're very loved, that they're very beautiful, that they're very wonderful, that they have a wonderful future, that they have to be able to talk if somebody bothers them, if somebody is sitting outside and doesn't belong, certainly outside side of schoolyards.  These are things that are publicized day in and day out, and just talk to them about the dangers, the dangers of listening to people who they don't know and don't love them.  Love and safety is very important--children like to be safe.  They like to be protected.  They like routine.  And I would say that is very basic.  Now, I don't know how often you get to talk to a stranger's child, but certainly with your own children, with you nieces and nephews, with your friends' children, I would discuss it openly.  Not frightening them by saying, "Oh, some bad man is going to come and get you," but talk to them about being careful with whom they associate.

Dr. Judy:  How do you make a child feel loved?

Joan L.:  Well, I had three children; I have two who are alive, and we won't talk about the other because it's too emotional to me.  But I would say that they should be verbally praised for all the good things they do, the marks they bring home from school, to tell them, "I love you, I am always here for you, and you can always tell me anything.'  I have to tell you, Judy, that some of the things that my children came home and told me when they were little did not please me, but nevertheless, I never let them know it.  I felt it was very important to have that open line of communication.

Dr. Judy: I know from working with you at the United Nations, and on the Media Committee for the NGOs, of which you are the co-chair, just how well you communicate. You're so encouraging and appreciative.  That's an excellent way to raise a child and to deal with adults and peers.  Where did you learn this way to deal with people?

"I was a very rebellious child."

Dr. Judy: That's beautiful.  I see you apply that philosophy within the context of our United Nations family.  Clearly, you've been a leader at the UN, chairing the Executive Committee, and initiating new projects for the Media Committee.  What's your goal, at the United Nations, for the non-governmental organizations' community?

Dr. Judy Kuriansky (right) is with Joan A. LEVY for LMTV/UN-NGO Profiles video-taping at Queens Public TV Studio, Flushing, on August 7, 2006.

"No, I don't pretend to be the government.  I don't want to be the government.  I just want to work with the government to achieve your goals." 

Joan L:  When I came to the United Nations, I had no idea what an NGO was! "What's an NGO?  Oh, it's a non-governmental organization.  That sounds good!"  And I saw that the role of the people that I tried to learn from was that they were the conscience and lobbyists for good things.  I've never thought of myself as a "do-gooder." But I do see that it is the people who come there to work as volunteers, to pursue what they think is right--whether it's human rights, peacekeeping, education, healthcare--any number of things, that in doing so, little by little, they get the attention of the inter-governmental organizations which are the 192 countries which make up the United Nations.  And I always feel... I had a lot of contact with diplomats when I was chair, because I used to sit up on the stage every week, and make announcements and things like that.  The diplomats always sat next to me, the way the setup was. And some of them were very expansive.  "Oh, I love NGO's, I love you people," and you knew they couldn't care less.  Some of them were really interested, and some of them said, "Why are you here? You're not the government."  And I would say, "No, I don't pretend to be the government.  I don't want to be the government.  I just want to work with the government to achieve your goals."  And it was very interesting because although each year the NGOs and civil society are more accepted, in there are still people who are very, very wary.  They don't trust us.

Dr. Judy: The goal is to really help governments see certain points of view.  So your non-governmental organization aims to convince governments of the importance of protecting children.  There are thousands of other NGOs at the UN that have their own agenda and mission.  When you were the head of the Executive Committee, what did you want to accomplish there?

Joan L.: First of all, you know the DPI, the Department of Public Information, which houses the Executive Committee--we're liaisons to give information and to get information.  And what is important about the DPI is that there are people all over the world, on every continent, and they have very little experience with the UN.  They have very little contact.  And yet, they want to work for world peace.  They want to know what's going on.  So I would say the main goal of the Executive Committee was to form partnerships with like organizations all over the world.  And in recent years, we've been able to work towards that because we now have interactive websites.  Even though there are many places in the world where they have poverty, they don't have computers, but practically every spot you go to has either a hospital or a university or a business community that has computers that can be used, and that can bring people closer together.

Dr. Judy:  That's very clever. People should go to those places for internet access and therefore they can communicate with the rest of the community, and make a difference.  They shouldn't sit back and think, "Oh, my voice doesn't matter," for the international community as well as their own government.

Joan L.:  Right.  Exactly.

Dr. Judy: In your role with the Media Committee, you have become a part of a new initiative to reach out to students and student journalists, a role which makes sense since you have worked for many years in the media.  What is that project?

"If the UN is simply a place of older, retired people looking to do good after they've completed their work or left their jobs or something, it doesn't work as well as when you have multigenerations..."

Joan L.:  For this UN DPI/NGO Conference that takes place from 6 to 8 September, we would like to involve young people-more young people--in the workings of the UN.  Because if the UN is simply a place of older, retired people looking to do good after they've completed their work or left their jobs or something, it doesn't work as well as when you have multigenerations, as when you interest children and junior high, and high school students.  What we're trying to do is reach out to college journalists, and have them cover this conference for their colleges, and thereby get a wonderful opportunity to be part of the workings of the United Nations at a time of the year when we have the premiere conference, when we have up to 3,000 people who register for this, all over the world.  It would be wonderful for these college journalists to come, not only to learn, but to bring back to their colleges what the heck is going on at the UN!  You know, the UN hasn't been held in too high esteem in the last couple of years, and I hate it.  I hate it because I think the UN is a wonderful place, and even though mistakes are made, where else do you get 192 countries who fight, who curse, who like each other, who don't like each other, but who stick together. No country has left the UN.  They feel that this is maybe the last hope, for civilization.  And I feel very strongly about it.

Dr. Judy: I can tell.  You also run communication workshops--this is related to your career as a speech pathologist.  What happens in those?

"Speech is superimposed.  The muscles we use to produce sound are used for eating and breathing, and speech is a secondary activity." 

Joan L.:  To me, if you mention communication, I could sit here all day and talk about it. I think that communication is the most important way that we connect.  And when we open our mouths to talk, we never think about it.  We never think about the fact that we're sitting here... You're a listener, and I'm a speaker.  Then I become a listener, and you become a speaker.  And you don't really appreciate it until it's taken away from you.  And that's been my life's work, working in a hospital setting with people who have either not been able to develop the art of speech and language, or who have lost it, because of cancer, because of degenerative neurological diseases, because of stuttering, voice problems, you name it.  There's a whole list of things you can do.  When I first majored in this in college, I had no idea what it was.  I went to college, and you had to put down a major.  And I said to myself, well, you know, I like to act, I've acted in school plays, I've hung around Summer Stock. I don't really want to be an actress, but I might as well put it down.  And you had to take certain basic courses, and in those basic courses I had something, I guess it was like Speech 101.  And it was learning what it was like to lose or not to develop the art of speech.  You know, speech is superimposed.  The muscles we use to produce sound are used for eating and breathing, and speech is a secondary activity.  When I visited some of the hospitals where veterans from different wars were, and saw children who had been born hearing-impaired or actually deaf, all of a sudden it was like a light bulb went on, and I thought, "This is wonderful!  Could I do this?"  And I did, I did for many, many years.

Dr. Judy:  You are a good communicator.  So what advice would you give to people--what three things would you say to people--for them to keep in mind to be a good communicator?

Joan L.:  The first thing I would say is to listen, because people don't always listen while somebody is talking to them.  They're already thinking of what they want to say to answer, and they don't hear the question.  Second of all, I would say to look your listener, your speaker, in the eye.  Communication is non-verbal as well as verbal. If you were talking to me and I was yawning, and waiting for you to get finished, what kind of message would that send to anybody?  So I would say listen, and be interested, and ask questions if you don't understand.

Dr. Judy:  Wonderful pieces of advice.  Who is a good example of good communicators?  You work with a lot of journalists, politicians, and government official. Who's a good role model for communication?

Joan L.:  I would say that the print journalists, most of the time, have a very short attention span, because they get bored easily, and it's "Just the facts, ma'am, and quickly."  I think that people who are, for instance, in this room--who work with broadcast media--are better listeners and communicators because they're actually watching and seeing the interaction.  I think that government, diplomats, are notoriously bad as a whole.  Not individually, because I have worked with some of the best, and I won't call them the worst because I don't know where this interview is going to land!  But I will say that a lot of them just are interested, and they don't want to be. I would say that people in the UN, and in the Department of Public Information, that we work so closely with, they are good communicators because they are the imparters of the information.

Dr. Judy:  For example, at the UN there is Shashi Tharoor, who has written many books and worked for the UN for many years and is now Under-Secretary-General for Communications and Public Information and leads our Department of Public Information.

Joan L.:  Oh, yes, the best!

Dr. Judy: Then there's the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan. Would you say that even former U.S. President Clinton has these qualities of being a good communicator?

Joan L.:  Oh yes.   I think that you've mentioned three of the best communicators. They really are.   I don't want to get political here, but I would say that some of the people we have in government are poor communicators.   They don't have a grasp of the verbal, so there's a lot of trying to get their thoughts together.   And I would say that if you are going to be with people, and you have a message to give, think about it before you give it.   I don't mean memorize it, I don't mean look like this... I always resent going to lectures where people who are talking to me read or never look up.   I mean, I could read it too.   I'm interested in making contact with them, where they may have some cue cards, but in reality they may want to talk at you, for you, to you.  And people who are just mumbling something and you're following, I don't need them to tell me.   I can read!

Dr. Judy: What did Joan Levy's parents do to make such an wonderful, bright, excellent, warm, communicating, supportive, human being like you?

Joan L.:  I guess they did something right, because as I said, I was quite rebellious.  But I think if I can think of two things, one, my mother, who was a teacher at a time when women really did not leave the home.  That was their role, in the home.  She told me to be independent, to get an education, to always make money so that I would not be dependent on somebody for life.  She said, "If you marry and have children, it's wonderful and I wish it for you because I think it would make you happy, but don't forget that you should always have a career."  And my father, who was difficult... he had two daughters, and he was wonderful until we got to be teenagers, and then he got tongue-tied, I mean he didn't know how to deal with us.  But at dinner, we always, always discussed current events and politics as a natural thing, just what was going on in the world.  And that made me interested.

Dr. Judy: They obviously did a great job with you. Thank you Joan for being an inspiration and giving us good advice about good communication: to listen, create eye contact, and always be interested.  Thank you so much, Joan, for being with us. You're amazing.

Joan L.:  And thank you.

- This interview was conducted by Dr. Judy KURIANSKY for the Light Millennium-TV Series/Queens Public Television on August 7, 2006 in Flushing, New York.

-Special Thanks to:
Jeanene MITHCHELL, Youth Representative of the Light Millennium to the United Nations; for the transcription of the interview.

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